animation?

[Justin1221]

is there such a thing as cartoons with physics and not just games?

[Crincles]

Eh....
Mabye this?
It's sorta interactive but most of it is animation.

[Maltor124]

Well, unless you use an animation physics engine such as Blender's built in one, or 3DS Max 9's...whatever, you can have simulated physics in an animation. But if you mean in the traditional sense of "animation" where you actually make it frame by frame, that's impossible, as you aren't really creating physics.. You are just moving a ball.

[Crincles]

Yep, I think that about sums it up, nice one Maltor.
There can't really be any true physics in cartoons but lots of animations have them...

[Maltor124]

Hehe, thanks. Also, I just played that Acrobots thing. It's really cool! You should add that to your list.

Woo! Post 600!

[Crincles]

I think I will along with the two others that go with it.

[Muntu]

Originally Posted by Crincles

Eh....
Mabye this?
It's sorta interactive but most of it is animation.

Originally Posted by Crincles

Eh....
Mabye this?
It's sorta interactive but most of it is animation.

Whoa! That was awesome

[Justin1221]

why did you quote him twice? can you give a link to a stickman cartoon or an animie with physics?

[Crincles]

Hrm...
Like Maltor said before actual cartoons like anime can't really have physics.
I'll try looking for a stick figure animation with physics though.

[Sokuto]

Animations are just a lot of pictures appearing very fast..

[Muntu]

Originally Posted by Justin1221

why did you quote him twice?

WTF?! I dunno

[Sardiini]

That Acrobots thingy is fun

[Xerxes]

Hmmm... does Endorphin count? That's used for animation... (www.naturalmotion.com for the 3 people who haven't heard of it)

[samuelk]

It's a really confusing question. Do you mean 2-D cell animation, or animation in general?

Since you said "cartoons" and "not just games", I'm assuming you mean non-interactive animation.

In that case, it's hard to say. There are animated films that have used physics simulation (Disney's The Lion King used software to simulate a wildebeast stampede). But most "cartoons" in the traditional sense don't use any type of physics simulation.

[Pret.Sal]

Well asking for physics in cartoons and animation is like asking for physics in game from a pre-rendered scene or cinematic, or even physics in a scripted game, which is completely contradictory.

[Justin1221]

yeah. i meant non-interactive 2D cartoons.

[Crincles]

No, I think it's safe to say there can't be any physics in a 2D cartoon.

[Justin1221]

oh. well maybe in a distanced future...........

[samuelk]

Originally Posted by Crincles

No, I think it's safe to say there can't be any physics in a 2D cartoon.

I wouldn't go that far. I can see creating a 2D animation that's rendered "live", using physics for practical effects (explosions, thrown objects, etc.).

[Pret.Sal]

If its rendered live, then it's not a cartoon and is thus a movie maker, which is an interactive application.

[samuelk]

Originally Posted by Pret.Sal

If its rendered live, then it's not a cartoon and is thus a movie maker, which is an interactive application.

No one says a cartoon has to be entirely pre-rendered. And animations rendered on the fly don't necessarily need to be interactive, either.

Technically, if you look at the "Happy Tree Friends" flash cartoons, they're being rendered in real-time; they're not pre-drawn cells or frames. You could easily add a simulated explosion, wind-blown grass, etc. (animations that aren't exactly the same way every time they're played back) into a cartoon like that and still call it a cartoon.

[Crincles]

He's talking about anime and regular cartoons, not flash one's. You can't make a traditional frame by frame hand drawn cartoon with physics. The end.

[Maltor124]

Exactly, as in TV. He's talking about physics on a cartoon in the sense of a television show. That doesn't happen. It's all drawn and then played to you in rapidly moving frames, it's impossible to have physics in them. You could have a ball falling, but you would have just drawn that, hence eliminating it being physics.

The only type of format on Earth (as far as I know) that renders the movie 100% as it goes along (NO pre-rendering whatsoever) is Flash, so I suppose it would be possible to use a physics simulation in that.... However, animation and simulation, as Pret.sal said, are contradictory. To animate is to completely have at your control, nothing else can happen if you don't make it so. A simulation uses programming to infer what would happen if something happens, putting little at your control. Having the two together just doesn't make sense.

[samuelk]

Originally Posted by Crincles

He's talking about anime and regular cartoons, not flash one's. You can't make a traditional frame by frame hand drawn cartoon with physics. The end.

Given that his original post is very vague, I don't see that you can assume what he means by "cartoon".

Maybe he means traditional 2-D cell style animation, or maybe he's not. Unless he comes back to the thread and clarifies what he's asking about, you can't really restrict his definition.

But given that films like The Lion King use traditional hand-drawn frame-by-frame animation along with digital animation I don't think you can rule out the use of physics.

In a movie like The Lion King, wihch featured a digital wildebeest stampede, the animators could have readjusted the physics parameters of the stampede, re-rendered the animation and composited the new sequence into the final film. Give that, I could see a cartoon in which a physics-based CGI sequence could be rendered live in real time and composited into a hand-drawn animation. On-the-fly compositing is done today, so this wouldn't be a difficult task.

[Crincles]

*Ahem* In his second post he said anime and stick figure animations........which I believe are completely hand drawn with no physics. I understand what you are saying about the whole animation physics thing; it's mostly used so that the complicated movements look more realistic, like the stampede you keep mentioning.