Physics, on a Planetary scale!!! (idea)

[PlasmaMan]

Ok, here goes nothing.

Most fluid physics games are 2D, but what if you were to create one in 3D? And, not have it just be a cube, filled with water and some objects.

so heres the main thing:
What if "we" (By we i mean anybody that might help, because i clearly cannot) where to make a physics game in which an entire planet was demonstrated? It would have water, forrest, an terrain altering ability, natural disasters, and even human life. Sort of like a cross between Spore, Sim City, and Google Earth (Except you can't zoom in that far)

Heres my ideas on the menu screen:
The game would start off at the menu screen, and it would allow you to choose your settings and create a new planet. The menu would take the shape of a solar system, and as you created Planets and saved them, they would appear around the sun at the center. When you click on an already saved planet you would have a choice between Loading the planet, Changing its location(will not affect climate), or destroying it.

When you press create new planet:
You would start off by letting you choose the size of your planet, and whether or not it has moons or rings(if so, how many?). You could also choose where the axis is, how fast it rotates, and How long it take for the planet to orbit the sun.

After that you go into the terrain stage, in which you sculpt your planet from a basic sphere into whatever you want. You could just make it into a planet with mountains, or you could go as far as to make a Super Mario Galaxy like planet(You know, like in the shape of a triangle, square, eliptical, or even a corkscrewing cylinder!!). You could do this by making pull/stretch action.

And now, your planet has been created!! You could name it whatever you want(Like, PlasmaNovia, for instance).

Now you enter the last stage, the "Life Stage" In which you planet changes without you doing anything. In this stage, Natural disasters happen well... Naturally!! Also time will move like this: 1 minute real time will equal ten years (earth time of course) but the planet will not show its actual rotation, but it will rotate slowly around the axis you chose.

Heres a list of things that you could do while in the "Life Stage"

Create button: allows you to make many things here are some I thought up:
Forrest- Makes a Forrest, that will grow and expand its borders on its own.
Water-Finally, this is the part with the real physics! Makes water that will flow around your planet and fill up basins or create river. I've also been thinking about erosion, but it seems impossible to me.
Desert- Makes a desert, that will be overtaken if it is next to forrest, or if there is water next to it.
Intelligent life-Makes a form of intelligent life, it will expand, and develope new technology. Careful with this one though, it destroys forrests over time.

Disaster button: (you guys are gonna like this)

[LIST]Meteor- will make a meteor (you choose the size) strike in the place that you clicked. You could also pause in several different places to simulate a meteor shower!!!!
Hurricane- Makes a hurrician that will travel in a random direction and destroy intelligent life, and some forrest.
SOLAR FLARE- thats right, a solar flare. It will destroy EVERYTHING on the side of the planet that is facing the sun.


Edit Button: Allows you to edit the landscape

Save Button: allows you to save your planet

Menu button: returns you to the solar system(menu).


I was also thing about this: when you delete a planet, you can chose how it gets detroyed. Here are some of my ideas:
Excessive war- Two nukes are launched from either side of the planet and they hit at opposite sides, destroying the planet.
Black Hole- A black hole moves into view and sucks up the planet.
Apocalypse- The entire planet bursts into flames and turns to ash

Well, thats about it, tell me what you think. Constructive Critisism is welcome. This idea was just floating around in my head for awhile, and i can't make games, so I thought that I'd give it to somebody who could. Also, you may think that I am copying Spore, but what it looks like in my head looks nothing like Spore. It is much less detailed.

EDIT: Any more ideas are welcome also!

[meow-muffin]

That sounds great but really practically impossible to make. you'd need to be able to like super optimize it or something cause its just to much for even a really good computer.

[PlasmaMan]

That sounds great but really practically impossible to make. you'd need to be able to like super optimize it or something cause its just to much for even a really good computer.

Yeah, I was afraid of that...

But what if it had the grafics of a Nintendo 64??

[meow-muffin]

But what if it had the grafics of a Nintendo 64??
Then it would suck. :(

[PlasmaMan]

Then it would suck. :(
so your basicly saying that the N64 sucks!?!?!?
HOW DARE YOU!!!! ROFL
but the powder game's graffics weren't that great, but many people loved them.

[Dan]

I'm sorry, but what you're talking about will take mass physics. Computers just aren't that good! And this is not a good forum for people to propose game ideas without actually being able to create them... :/

[weerdsta]

EPICZ IDEA!!! :eek: if only it would work on a computer. it would also be cool in real life! except for killing.

[Rhubarber]

This is a ridiculous idea. You realize that this would literally be like programming the entire earth? >.>

[PlasmaMan]

listen, I don't think you all know exactly what I am talking about. If The intellegent life idea was scrapped :( And the graffics weren't that good :( And if you weren't able to zome in at all, I think that this idea is actually possible, but only on very fast computers. Also, are you guys thinking that the "Forrest" will be 3-D? Because I was just thinking that It would just change the color of the surface of the planet, and slowly spread.

But, maybe I am a little ahead of my time...

[Jokker]

Ahead of your time? You're stuck in the stone age. Because you don't realise what affects performance and what doesn't.

This isn't possible, not because of graphics or intelligent life. This is not possible because of the massive physics. If you just want a planet water can flow on, it's already been made, I'm sure. But the water physics would be awful.

Forest, life, desert, and whatever was the other one would have to be 3D for it to be a true innovation. Because only the surface changing has already been done, AND posted here. Just search.

[Dan]

All of that might be mostly possible, except for the water.

[meow-muffin]

What if only stuff near you changed. Like stuff was loaded in and out when you
went from place to place.

[PlasmaMan]

Ahead of your time? You're stuck in the stone age. Because you don't realise what affects performance and what doesn't.

This isn't possible, not because of graphics or intelligent life. This is not possible because of the massive physics. If you just want a planet water can flow on, it's already been made, I'm sure. But the water physics would be awful.

Forest, life, desert, and whatever was the other one would have to be 3D for it to be a true innovation. Because only the surface changing has already been done, AND posted here. Just search.

That first part was unessisary. I do realise what affects preformance and what doesn't, its pretty easy. I don't think that you realise what hurts people's feelings and what doesn't. I would appreciate it now, if you would appologise for saying that I am "Stuck In the stone age".

Also, Meow-Muffin, Thats A good Idea. Don't know why I didn't think of it.

Edit: I was also able to came up with an idea for a game that is possible while i was making this post. So, at least it wasnt all for nothing. you can be expecting another post from me in a couple of days... or weeks if i forget

[Jokker]

That first part was unessisary. I do realise what affects preformance and what doesn't, its pretty easy. I don't think that you realise what hurts people's feelings and what doesn't. I would appreciate it now, if you would appologise for saying that I am "Stuck In the stone age".

Also, Meow-Muffin, Thats A good Idea. Don't know why I didn't think of it.

Edit: I was also able to came up with an idea for a game that is possible while i was making this post. So, at least it wasnt all for nothing. you can be expecting another post from me in a couple of days... or weeks if i forget

It's a figure of speech, sorry if I offended you. But it was simply a counterargument when you said you were 'ahead of your time', which in turn made me into one who is behind you, which I definitely am not.

And no, you don't realise what affects performance. Graphics don't matter in this case. It's all a matter of the water physics. That's it. Nothing else takes up more CPU cycles. Remove that and bam, it's a perfectly easy to make game.

[kotsoft]

you would probably have to settle with "miniature" planets. with really small numbers of trees and rocks. which isn't that bad, since if they were real size, you wouldn't be able to see them.

the planet and trees would probably be simulated with something like FEM (which is what's behind DMM) and relatively easy to code. however, while i can get softbodies to work with FEM, i'm still working on the restructuring of the mesh when it fractures.

and particle methods might be possible if you make the oceans shallow. water can also be faked in a few other ways. i don't know about metaballs, since i haven't tried doing them in 3d.

here's a 10 minute concept:
http://pollutedplanet.googlepages.com/planet.png

[PlasmaMan]

http://pollutedplanet.googlepages.com/planet.png

YES YES YES!!! thats exactly what I'd pictured it would look like!!
well... except I pictured it bigger of course, but that pic is great!

@Jokker: I'm sorry, i guess i didn't know that about water physics. BUT, now i DO know what affects preformance.

[digitalmanifestation]

you would probably have to settle with "miniature" planets. with really small numbers of trees and rocks. which isn't that bad, since if they were real size, you wouldn't be able to see them.

the planet and trees would probably be simulated with something like FEM (which is what's behind DMM) and relatively easy to code. however, while i can get softbodies to work with FEM, i'm still working on the restructuring of the mesh when it fractures.

and particle methods might be possible if you make the oceans shallow. water can also be faked in a few other ways. i don't know about metaballs, since i haven't tried doing them in 3d.

here's a 10 minute concept:
http://pollutedplanet.googlepages.com/planet.png

Awsome stuff man ^^

[meow-muffin]

Hey kot what program did you make that awesome pic in? Max or Maya? Or did you make it in a real time way?
Edit: oh yeah, make the oceans spring meshes that emit particles when there is a disturbance on an area of the surface. (kots concept looks a lot like Super Mario Galaxy. :) )

[BlackNecro]

The whole idea reminds me pretty much of AI Planet - fm thread (http://www.fun-motion.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499)

[Christcross9]

whao..me too XD

asdfhadgjsfjg

[PlasmaMan]

Ok i guess this thred can be locked now, I've said what I wanted to say.

Any game devleloper out there that need ideas, just talk to me.

[Whef]

Well, you know it WOULD be possible to run it on a gigantic scale if you had a computer with 4 9800 GX2's with CUDA, 2 Intel Quad Core prcoessors 12 MB l2$ at 3.2Ghz stock (forget...it might be Q7750), and have fifty of them all strung together into one mega computer.

[LuizZak]

Hey! hey! What about this:

We kidnap KotSoft, then we steal 10 of that Nasa computers and then we lock KotSoft and the machines in my basement, then we pray so that he make a simulation with 10+ FPS :D


Translating:
It's impossible for the currents machine to make something with such massive physics simulation. Maybe later, not now.

[meow-muffin]

Hey! hey! What about this:

We kidnap KotSoft, then we steal 10 of that Nasa computers and then we lock KotSoft and the machines in my basement, then we pray so that he make a simulation with 10+ FPS


Translating:
It's impossible for the currents machine to make something with such massive physics simulation. Maybe later, not now.
Great Idea! :p

[kotsoft]

no way! i would simulate 100,000,000 particles at 60 fps.

[LuizZak]

no way! i would simulate 100,000,000 particles at 60 fps.

Ok! Send me your adress so I can kidnap you.





Meow will steal the PCs.....

[Elcoo]

When I first read this thread I though "Gah, that's impossible" but I started to like the Idea and tried around a bit. And here's the result:
http://hosting07.imagecross.com/image-hosting-08/1127planet.png

Well, the water physics aren't that spectecular yet, but I'll improve them :rolleyes:
Download the demo here:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-1209157/planet.zip.html
controls:
left mouse: Add water
right mose: turn the planet
space: Add wave at mouseposition

I hope to get on with it tomorrow :)

[maggot226]

wow man. that seems like a really nice idea. But, i noticed a lot of people are saying that its ahead of its time. could you be more wrong. minus the zoom, itelligent life and forests, this idea is just Universe sandbox!

[Elcoo]

Yeah, but I'm thinking on implementing wars and so on to get some nice gameplay.
Well lets see what will turn out of this :)

[Farbror Fazer]

wow man. that seems like a really nice idea. But, i noticed a lot of people are saying that its ahead of its time. could you be more wrong. minus the zoom, itelligent life and forests, this idea is just Universe sandbox!

Yeah, let's remove one of the biggest features and we'll still have the same game!

[maggot226]

....make me feel bad.....:(

[Elcoo]

Lol, but it's acutally right.
It's kind of saying "Mhh, cortex command is not a special game. Let's remove destroyable enviroments and partiticle physics and it will be just a 2d shooter"
Edit:
- Added forests(Not spreading yet)
- Added splashes

http://www.file-upload.net/download-1213150/planet.zip.html

Would be nice if you could report your framerate. Please write if you used the high-poly or low-poly mesh and use 100% trees. Frames are locked to 60.

[Duhya]

Would be nice if you could report your framerate. Please write if you used the high-poly or low-poly mesh and use 100% trees. Frames are locked to 60.

Runs at 20fps, which is good on my computer because i cant run anything. The planet kinda looked like it was breathing. I would love to see a simple simulator with no fancy graphics or anything, just the essentials. Edit: i used high-poly. On low-poly it runs at 34fps.

[jaybud4]

Hey! hey! What about this:

We kidnap KotSoft, then we steal 10 of that Nasa computers and then we lock KotSoft and the machines in my basement, then we pray so that he make a simulation with 10+ FPS :D


Translating:
It's impossible for the currents machine to make something with such massive physics simulation. Maybe later, not now.
Uh.
The NASA computers you mention take up an entire room and have no graphics card.
They calculate, not draw.

[akuryo]

So, i just want to tell i'm actually one of those "developper" (currently working on ASaFE, a FSG-like game) and i will tell that :

1. Jokker is 100% right, graphics and AI really doesn't matter, but physic will suck all CPU.
2. Kotsoft, i find a way to simulate particles a lots faster, a technic i developped myself and can really make your CPU make it faster, here is the way :

I called it the "hotspot simulating."

You basicly separate your screen in 4 four parts(in a first time, when will split it in more then) and just look at every particles in each of the parts, and make the collisions just between those.

if you have 200.000 particles, you will need around 20000000000 collisions tests per fps, that would totally suck. (it's something like (200000 * 200000)/2 a little bit less, doesn't matter). but if you use hotspot simulating, you don't simulate 200000 particles, but concretely 50000 * 4 . So :

50000 * 50000 = 2500000000
2500000000 * 4 = 10000000000

so the difference with 4 splits :

20000000000 =>
10000000000

yeah, that means a 2 time more fast simulation. Now imagine you split it into 100 :

200000 / 100 = 2000

2000*2000 = 4000000
4000000 / 2 = 2000000

2000000 * 100 = 200000000

So the difference with 100 splits:

200000000 =>
20000000000

Yeah, one time again, this mean a simuation 100 time faster. amazing no? with large values of particles, you can do even more split, and really make your simulation a lot faster.


edit : after reread, i just see my post is really awful to understand, so just tell yourself that this works, and that this let you get more that 100x faster physic simulation ;)