Should the Golden Rule be Destroyed?

[Maltor124]

Alright, I've been seeing a lot of hate for the Golden Rule lately, but I've always backed the Rule because I was a firm believer in it and one of the creators of it.

However, a post by a user in another thread has made me see that possibly it was wrong of me to support the Golden Rule.

I have never liked the Golden Rule, ever. It is a relic from the past of fun-motion, a time when there were no rules.

And there you have it, I suppose. I had never thought of it in that way, and it makes a great deal of sense, as well.

So what's the point of this thread? Well, I'll remove my support of the Golden Rule and do everything I can to eradicate it from the the Fun-Motion community if you guys out there think all it's doing is hurting us. I'm leaving it to you, so please, vote in this poll and if you make a definite decision post here why you chose what you did.

[earlofnim]

Definitely not, it's unofficial.

[Ryu Hinote]

Definitely not, it's unofficial.

Did you say no on the poll? Because that if so, you are contradicting yourself.
But my vote is a solid Maybe, as the rule is against asking for games that are on the website and off. It should be kept to enforce the search bar, but not if the name of the game is forgotten.

[Dan]

I believe that the golden rule starts to many arguments in this community and should be abolished. If someone doesn't like someone asking for a game, than they can state what they think POLITELY and intelligently.

[rocketeer]

I think that if the Golden Rule can be used in a good manner, it should stay.

[adb]

I voted yes, and I share Dan's sentiments.

On the more general subject of rules:

Increased regulation tends to lead to community instability. I saw one guy get flamed for bumping a thread to ask a question. Imagine how much worse this would have been if thread-bumping were a full-fledged official rule (http://www.fun-motion.com/forums/showthread.php?t=804) rather than a parenthetical.

IMO, any change that could decrease incidents of flaming and arguing is well worth it. If the Golden Rule stays, it should be replaced with the original ethic of reciprocity.

[Nintendo-Guy]

Ill say no. Nothing more.

[Shook]

Well, i've hardly been here for long enough to know the golden rule properly,
but i sure have seen it being delivered with a mallet between the eyes to some
unsuspecting person, who happened to request a game or something.
So basically, if people can't hide away their Mallet of Golden Rule +1, i'll vote for
it to be gone. But if they can just poke someone on the shoulder instead, i s'pose
it's ok for it to stay.
I guess this summarizes up to a "Maybe"...

[Crincles]

"1. What we do is CONTRIBUTE to a game, we SUGGEST how to make it better, and 2. we RECOMMEND different physics games, then 3. we discuss what we have found from them and our ideas about them. 4. We're not here as your butlers to give you physics games on a silver platter."

Here is the Golden Rule, I will now completely dismantle it.

1. Yes we do, if we are lucky sometimes the games creator comes and posts here and we can help make the game even better.

2. We can't RECOMMEND physics games to new members or help them find a game they can't remember the name of? Because these are usually the threads it is used in. It just seems like a contradiction to me.

3. Yes we do, especially in their respected threads. There is no reason these great games cannot be recommended to new users who ask for recommendations in threads of their own creation.

4. Isn't this just a little harsh? This statement also contradicts "we RECOMMEND different physics games" because it can be rephrased as "We're not here to recommend you physics games whenever you ask."

My final and biggest issue with The Golden Rule is that it is COMMUNIST, yes you heard me right. The rule tells new members to contribute to the community and not to ask for games for their own personal gain. In the end the Golden Rule tried to create new members directly into contributors. It was like a mold, if you followed it you would be doing the exact same thing as everyone else was, contributing to the whole of fun-motion and to no singular person.

If anyone doesn't know what communism is, here is a simple definition from Wikipedia:
Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production.

In essence our "Product" is physics games. The Golden Rule promotes users to only contribute and discuss games not to ask for them. If you asked for them you would get smacked in the face with The Golden Rule and told that you need to contribute to the community and that we don't serve individuals, only the community. So we tried to make new users Contributors just like all the old users were Contributors eliminating the New User and Old User boundary a "Classless Society".

So in the end The Golden Rule was promoting a communistic forum and since then we have contradicted this goal in many threads. As I stated previously The Golden Rule is a relic of the past and the forum is now going in a new direction that we should all embrace with open arms.

I'm saddened to see people still supporting it after all this time I figured that maybe others would have come to the same conclusion I have.

Sincerely,
Crincles

EDIT: The Italicized bit of this post has been revised and heavily edited (You can find it revised a couple of posts down this page) because I did not state what I felt correctly at all. Actually I posted quite the opposite.

[futuramaguy42]

I think there should be a request section. It is annoying when new people either repost old stuff or request things.

There should be more sections in general, like ones for different types of games, like tech demos, videos, shooters, puzzles, web games. It would make it a lot easier to find a game so you don't repost it.

I do agree the golden rule can be annoying. Its like "GOLDEN RULE BITCHES LOCK THREAD NOA!!!"

[Nintendo-Guy]

Futuramaguy.. Theres no meaning to ask for another section. There will never be another section.

[Maltor124]

A fair enough point, Crincles, but is a communist form such a bad thing if it is not abused? Your main point was that it promoted a "classless" society and encouraged users to contribute to the community as a whole. Where is the problem in that? In the point that the general idea was flawed, I do not agree. Communism was also a great idea, in my opinion. Years of flawed execution, however, have created an image of it being a horrible form of government. However, it is the governments using Communism that are horrible, is it not? Would the Americans have hated the Russians if they had been a dictatorship? A monarchy? A patriarchy? Of course, it was a conflict of ideals of what government should be like, not of government forms, although they were wrapped into those ideals.

How does this relate to the forum? I believe that the idea was indeed good, but its execution was greatly flawed. People hate the Golden Rule because of the way people are using it. Its idea was exactly as you stated it. To prevent a boundary between new and old users. To encourage self-contribution instead of requesting contribution from others.

This is, after all a forum for physics games. The rule does not limit their discussion of these physics games. It encourages the use of all games for everyone, not all games for one. People can find the games they are looking for on their own time, that's why we have both an archive and a search function. What do you think people did before the forum? They looked through what was already there, they did not spam Matthew with emails asking for more games.

Also, I believe you may have misinterpreted the final statement of the Golden Rule. "We're not here as your butlers to give you physics games on a silver platter" means we will not dedicate an entire thread to "I want physics games with fighting," when people can so easily find them on their own.

Additionally, on your statement about RECOMMEND portion, since when were threads asking for the name of a game restricted? Just last week (maybe even a few days ago) somebody was asking for the name of a game he forgot. Naturally the thread was locked, but only after he was helped and the name of the game found. This is only half the meaning of the RECOMMEND portion, anyway. The other half is that you can also recommend those games to others in the community, whether through private messages or through real life chat.

As I said, I will embrace any decision the community makes, but that doesn't mean I won't fight for things I think need to be corrected.

Now, that's just about all I've got to say about that. :)

[muffinmonkey]

I think people are getting confused by the poll title by the way

"Should the Golden Rule be destroyed?/Does it Hurt the Community AS A WHOLE?"

the answers to the 2 questions are opposite

edit: what was I thinking of when I read/voted/wrote that

I think the golden rule exists now purely to use against newbs who offend someone for some reason

Look at this game, I think it's alright
THET W4Z A\/\/FuL, 7Hat d0n'7 c0unt 45 4 conTr!rbuition, GOOOLLLLDEENEN RUUULE

I think it's so long that it encompasses all possible things anyone could do to upset anyone else. I think it should be common sense to not ask people to do stuff you could easily do or not contribute in some way. However, this seems to be wishful thinking. I feel that it could be summed up much better by something like: "Post Physics, Discuss Physics" or even just "Post Physics"

edit3:
My final and biggest issue with The Golden Rule is that it is COMMUNIST, yes you heard me right.


I really expected better of you
what is your (by which I mean America's) beef with communism
what's better?
Poor people not being able to feed themselves
The Hyper-rich being maybe only ,heaven forbid, rich

I don't know why I asked that question, it's pretty obvious
here's this huge country with much oil and other natural resources and a stable base and it's up and coming and could be an economic threat and America doesn't like it
why not?
... erm ... communism?

[Crincles]

Sorry if I was misunderstood but nowhere did I say communism is "bad" I just stated that it hasn't worked in the context of this forum especially because The Golden Rule has been misused as stated. The problem with communism is not its goal, it's the method that it is achieved by (Or failed to be achieved by). If communism has succeeded anywhere it is because the people in charge of it's government are not overusing their power over the community. My post's goal was to try and attempt to state that The Golden Rule was a sort of "Governing Body" and those who used it used it as they pleased against anyone it could be applied to in a less then desirable manner.

Sorry for not explaining myself fully. I understand how my post could have been seen as a stereotypical hate for communism. I will try and pick my words more carefully next time.

(I have not read all posts pertaining to mine yet, I will do that now and try to clear up anything else I have "misstated")

EDIT: Here is a revised portion of the communist bit of my previous post, this is what I really meant to say I see that I stated it quite horribly.

My final and biggest issue with The Golden Rule is that it is a flawed attempt at COMMUNISM, yes you heard me right. The rule tells new members to contribute to the community and not to ask for games for their own personal gain. Yet in doing this it discourages members to contribute. If a new member creates a thread in which he asks for games that have certain characteristics like "Ragdolls" or "Liquid Physics" there is no reason not to answer him with games that contain these things because by answering him with a game and a link to its discussion thread here on fun-motion we are enabling this person to contribute. In the end the Golden Rule tried to create new members directly into contributors while failing to do so.

If anyone doesn't know what communism is, here is a simple definition from Wikipedia:
Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production.

In essence our "Product" is physics games. The Golden Rule promotes users to only contribute and discuss games not to ask for them. If you asked for them you would get smacked in the face with The Golden Rule and told that you need to contribute to the community and that we don't serve individuals, only the community. So in trying to make all the new users and old users Contributors, eliminating the New User and Old User boundary a "Classless Society", we simultaneously failed to do so.

So in the end The Golden Rule was trying to promote a communistic forum while failing terribly. Since then we have contradicted this goal in many threads. As I stated previously The Golden Rule is a relic of the past and a flawed one at that, if we can take my suggestion of telling people games they may like and linking them to the discussions of that game fun-motion might become a better place.

I really expected better of you
I have found expecting anything from anybody is a grave mistake. It has caused me trouble many times.

[Ryu Hinote]

Communism was also a great idea, in my opinion.

YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST!
Jut kidding, although I do agree with your points.

[Dan]

God, What is it with people and thinking america's obsessed with killing off countries with any amount of oil whatsoever? Stupid conspiracy theorists. But Let's not turn this into a I HATE AMERICA Thread. (Lol, I'm so helping that happen? xD) It seems like there have been more than three people who have said yes in this thread, but voted something different? I thought it was kind of confusing at first. I thought it was Should it Stay instead of Should it Be destroyed. Hopefully that's not confusing other people, probably just me in my stupidity.

[Maltor124]

I'm not voting, maybe that's what straying you. I'm checking people's arguments, but I'm staying impartial in the vote.

[muffinmonkey]

I thought it was kind of confusing at first. I thought it was Should it Stay instead of Should it Be destroyed. Hopefully that's not confusing other people, probably just me in my stupidity.

Nope, I voted the wrong way so it should be 6-7

[Z3R052]

But Let's not turn this into a I HATE AMERICA Thread.

No lets.

I hate America because of how the majority of the children going to school don't care about there education at all. They expect there parents to purchase there new ipods and abercrombie cloths when there out of high school, they believe that a great job will jump into there lap even though they barely can read. American teens don't appreciate what they have other countries children appreciate education and work hard so they can get out of the crummy neighborhood they live in. I'm saying this as an American teen myself, I was like the rest of teens in my high school but Ive changed I'm working as hard as I can in all my subjects so I can become successful, I refuse to work at McDonald's the rest of my life.

I'm not trying to offend any Americans because I know we are not all like that its just we don't appreciate anything. thats my two cence,

after that off-topic mess I am now inclined to write an insightful paragraph about the Golden Rule.

I have been around for awhile and I remember when it emerged, I am a follower of the rule and I believe it should stay. Even now we still face problems of people requesting games when it could be solved by simply searching.

BTW: isn't the Golden rule more Socialist rather then Communist.

[Dan]

If you were an american teen, you must have grown up in a pretty rich neighborhood for everyone you know to own all their clothes being of the abercrombie brand... (Lol? Did that sentance sound wrong to you too? xD) I'm in a middle class family and I DO Intend to work hard for all of my life so I can go to college and get a well paying job. Most of MY Friends do the same, you must have some pretty rich friends or something then.


You have no idea how much I'm trying to contain myself right now.

[Sokuto]

If you were an american teen, you must have grown up in a pretty rich neighborhood for everyone you know to own all their clothes being of the abercrombie brand... (Lol? Did that sentance sound wrong to you too? xD) I'm in a middle class family and I DO Intend to work hard for all of my life so I can go to college and get a well paying job. Most of MY Friends do the same, you must have some pretty rich friends or something then.


You have no idea how much I'm trying to contain myself right now.

I live in a god-forsaken suburb and I go to a public school. Everyone there wears designer clothes and shit like that and complain about how their life sucks and how school is pointless. I have probably worked harder in my entire 17 years of existence than everyone at my school combined. All I wear are jeans and any t-shirt I can find laying on my floor. I also saw a damn 4 year old texting on a cell phone.

I don't know what kind of world we live in now, but it's one hell of a shitty one.

On-topic: I think the GR needs a good revision. I mean all it says is "Don't ask for anything, we'll give it to you for free and then we can talk about it"

[Dan]

I live in a god-forsaken suburb and I go to a public school. Everyone there wears designer clothes and shit like that and complain about how their life sucks and how school is pointless. I have probably worked harder in my entire 17 years of existence than everyone at my school combined. All I wear are jeans and any t-shirt I can find laying on my floor. I also saw a damn 4 year old texting on a cell phone.

I don't know what kind of world we live in now, but it's one hell of a shitty one.

On-topic: I think the GR needs a good revision. I mean all it says is "Don't ask for anything, we'll give it to you for free and then we can talk about it"

That's basically me in a nutshell. Minus 3 years. Although, I make sure that most of my friends are the kids who work hard. But we still have everything else you've mentioned. No, this does not make me an ultra nerd. xD

[rocketeer]

I live in a god-forsaken suburb and I go to a public school. Everyone there wears designer clothes and shit like that and complain about how their life sucks and how school is pointless. I have probably worked harder in my entire 17 years of existence than everyone at my school combined. All I wear are jeans and any t-shirt I can find laying on my floor. I also saw a damn 4 year old texting on a cell phone.

I don't know what kind of world we live in now, but it's one hell of a shitty one.

On-topic: I think the GR needs a good revision. I mean all it says is "Don't ask for anything, we'll give it to you for free and then we can talk about it"

... Well, I agree that this world isn't a good one. You can hardly find a person or two that you can get along with. Though, you can still be someone that can get along with everyone :)

[meow-muffin]

I voted NO!!!

[rocketeer]

Even if the Golden Rule DOES get "kicked off" of the forum, some people will still remember it. So why does saying it should be gone do anything? Please answer :D

[muffinmonkey]

let's stay on topic please

maybe the golden rule just needs to be simplified

[Ryu Hinote]

Even if the Golden Rule DOES get "kicked off" of the forum, some people will still remember it. So why does saying it should be gone do anything? Please answer :D

I think if everyone votes for deletion, the Golden Rule would not work as a proper rule and thus can not be used.

[Maltor124]

Is that all the votes we are getting? Come on guys, I don't want to have to base this decision on only 25 or so people...

[rocketeer]

I think if everyone votes for deletion, the Golden Rule would not work as a proper rule and thus can not be used.

I didn't mean that it could still be used, I just meant that people would still remember it.

[geel9]

No lets.

I hate America because of how the majority of the children going to school don't care about there education at all. They expect there parents to purchase there new ipods and abercrombie cloths when there out of high school, they believe that a great job will jump into there lap even though they barely can read. American teens don't appreciate what they have other countries children appreciate education and work hard so they can get out of the crummy neighborhood they live in. I'm saying this as an American teen myself, I was like the rest of teens in my high school but Ive changed I'm working as hard as I can in all my subjects so I can become successful, I refuse to work at McDonald's the rest of my life.



As an adolescent who still goes to school, 11 years old, I find that HIGHLY offensive!

Not ALL Americans are idiots, jerks, or crackpots! Not ALL of us skip school to play some football or do drugs! Did you THINK that SOME of us actually WANTED an education?! That we children aren't as bad as you think?! Basing an entire group based on what SOME of them do is IDIOTIC! I for one am getting A's in all of my classes! Yet YOU think that us Americans are all IDIOTS! We don't ALL have sex at age 10!!

Sorry for the outburst, but I find your post VERY ignorant.



P.S.:I vote for DESTROY THE RULE! All it does for this community is make other people feel "smug" about themselves because they hammered down on a new poster relentlessly. I thought this community was about physics games, not making people feel like CRAP? Most of the members here should be BANNED for their excessive vulgarity,(ONE OF THE RULES) but are not, because they think they are better than the rules, and have convinced the mods that!!

This forum is about PHYSICS GAMES! The Golden Rule was meant to be a simple little "guideline," and yet people turn it into an EFFING RULE! What the community doesn't REALIZE, is that a topic CAN'T be locked because of the Golden Rule:It's unofficial! Yet, mods still lock request threads--and thus, they should be banned for locking without a valid reason.

[BananaFoam]

Let's look at the positive and negative thoughts.

Positive: People won't be flaming, so not as much fuss. Also, instead of finding an old thread and necroing it, people will make new threads so they can talk about that game without spending any extra time.

Negative: You will see billions of threads about simple things, like "Gmod doesn't work 4 me!" or "THIS GAME ROKS!" Plus, don't forget spamming and other problems.

Think before you change the rules, guys.

[geel9]

But those examples are offtopic. They are still a violation of rules. REQUESTING A GAME, however, is different.

And, um, a thread titled "this game roks"...that would be allowed...

[Maltor124]

Yet, mods still lock request threads--and thus, they should be banned for locking without a valid reason.

Depending on the type of request and nature of the discussion, request threads are not always locked. When locked, they are always locked for valid reasons, however. Either at the request of the OP, or because the discussion has gone to the dogs. (As they do once there is no one to help.) They are not locked if the person's request has not been fulfilled.

Please get your facts straight next time before you start calling for the mods to be banned.

[geel9]

My apologies, Maltor.

Jesus loves you.

[Kitchens]

I think people just need to view the Golden Rule in the right way. Asking for the name of a game is okay, but starting a whole new thread like "wut iz a fun phisics game????" is not. Overall, the Golden Rule is good.

[Eanfom]

Do you wanna know the problem with the golden rule?

This:

I've been here since before there was a forum, and I have no idea what the golden rules is

How is a noob who just joined gonna know what you mean when you go "THE GOLDEN RULE"

[Dan]

God, whoever started this messed up... The title is Should the Golden Rule Stay, and then the poll title is Should the Golden Rule be destroyed?/Does it Hurt the Community AS A WHOLE? Those are two conflicting statements.

[Maltor124]

How so? If it hurts the community as a whole wouldn't you want it destroyed?

EDIT: Oh, you mean the title and the poll title are conflicting. I see. Why? I am asking questions, not making statements. If I had said "The Golden Rule Should Stay" then "The Golden Rule Should be Destroyed," then it'd be conflicting.

[Dan]

This is what I meant, Let's say... You put yes as your answer. For the name of the topic, you would say Yes, I want the golden rule to stay. But for the actual Poll, Yes. I think the Golden Rule should be destroyed, and it does hurt the community as a whole. See how it's conflicting?

[Maltor124]

Oh, I see. You mean you have to change your train of thought to answer? I get what you mean, now. OK, I'll change the title of the thread.

[Dan]

Ok! Thanks! Sorry to seem so blunt, but little things like that seem to annoy me. xD